SHEPHERDING A CHILD'S HEART - pt. 7
Today we get into the controversial stuff I suspect because we'll be talking about the rod. I'm glad Karen and Lis are joining in as we consider these next two chapters.
Chapter 11 - Embracing Biblical Methods: The Rod
It's important to keep in mind that in this chapter Tripp is only laying out the why of using the rod, not the how or when. I had to keep reminding myself of that because a lot of the time I just want to rush into the checklist of when to spank and how to spank.
We ended last week with the need to have rich and varied communication with our children. In this chapter Tripp emphasizes from Scripture that there is a deeper need inside your children which communication alone cannot address. He says, "The child's problem is not an information deficit. His problem is that he is a sinner...The rod functions in this context. It is addressed to needs within the child. These needs cannot be met by mere talk." He then goes on to quote Proverbs 22:15 ~ "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." Throughout this chapter Tripp emphasizes from Scripture the depth of the child's need, the God-ordained method of using the rod to address that need and the severity of the consequences if the child is left undisciplined. In a short paragraph here is Tripp's definition of the rod ~
"The rod is a parent, in faith toward God and faithfulness toward his or her children, undertaking the responsibility of careful, timely, measured and controlled use of physical punishment to underscore the importance of obeying God, thus rescuing the child from continuing in his foolishness until death."
Tripp then goes on to elaborate on the things the rod is not~
Not the Right to Unbridled Temper
Not the Right to Hit Our Children Whenever We Wish
Not Venting of Frustration
Not Retribution - it is not a payment due, it has a goal of restoration
Not Associated with Anger
Then he answers some objections to the rod and concludes with the fruit of the rod. He also makes the point that the use of all these methods must be balanced. Communication and the rod go hand and hand. This is where I need to do the most work I think.
I don't want to just gloss over these last things but I think I can address them by saying this: I believe Tripp's points are in line with Scripture. He continues to come back to Scripture to back up the assertions he gets from Scripture. We use the rod in our home (in my case it's a wooden spoon.) I am thankful for the teaching I received on the use of the rod early in my journey as a parent. What is in this chapter is much needed reinforcement for me. I received wise counsel from many different people who I respect as parents. I have seen the fruit of properly and calmly administered corporal discipline. This doesn't mean that I don't struggle with it though. As with many other areas of life, it comes down to belief. Do I believe what God's word says and do I fear Him enough to obey Him instead of my own desires or the popular wisdom of this age? I think questions arise when we read these proverbs which have such severe warnings for children who are not disciplined with the rod and then we look at ourselves or other people who have turned out just fine without being spanked. I think the problem there is we can never have a crystal clear picture of what is going on in the hearts of our chilren. Are we going to trust our own incomplete observations or are we going to trust in what our God and King has said in His holy, inerrant word? He created our children, He wove them together in our own wombs! Should we not trust Him then? He knows our children and their needs to an exponentially greater extent than we do.
I don't mean to judge or condemn any who read this who do not use the rod. I have never met 99% of those people who read my blog. I don't have an understanding of your particular family dynamic. So if you have a problem with what Tripp has laid out please back it up with Scripture and speak kindly.
Chapter 12 - Embracing Biblical Methods: Appeal to the Conscience
In this chapter Tripp does not introduce another method but further emphasizes what must be the foundation of all our correction and shepherding as a parent ~ the gospel. Our discipline must open our children's eyes to their sin so we may lead them to the cross. Again the point of all this is not so our children can live up to some keepable standard. The whole point is to show them that they can't but Jesus delivered Himself up for them so they may be free from the power of sin and death so they may glorify Him and enjoy Him forever.
I fail as a parent every day. My job as a parent isn't to try to live up to some keepable standard either. I need to preach the gospel to myself as well and continually offer back my children to Him that He may do the inner work in their hearts that I cannot do even if I perfectly applied every biblical method there is. Pray and believe, pray and believe, pray and believe...
8 comments:
tulipgirl,
Thanks for your response. I'm going to respond after I think and pray more about the issue. I don't want to write anything just off the cuff because this issue is really important.
Until later,
Meredith
Hi Meredeth,
I have enjoyed reading your book review on Tripp’s book, and I agree with some of what is in his book until these chapters you are covering now. My areas of disagreement are:
Page 108 – What is the Rod? – “The rod is a parent, in faith toward God…(who) undertakes the responsibility of careful, timely, measured and controlled uses of physical punishment”.
Page 109 – “God has mandated its use…..God has commanded it”. So if I do not use spanking as a Christian parent, am I in sin? Is there room in Evangelical Christianity for parents to parent and bring their children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord without resorting to hitting our children?
Page 138 - Obedience Defined – “Obedience is willing submission of one person to the authority of another. It means more than a child doing what he is told. It means doing what he is told, without challenge, without excuse and without delay.” I do not want my children raised like this. Often I’ll tell my daughter who is 6 to come over to the computer room for her lesson (we home school). She might say, “OK, but can I go get a snack first..or can I finish coloring this last page”. Trip actually mentions “finish coloring this page”, as not acceptable. Why? My child is a human being who has a mind that can think. Maybe her body is telling her she is thirsty or needs a snack before we sit down to do school work. If you are like me, I know that when I am engrossed in a project and almost finished with it, and my wife calls for me, I will say I need 5-10 more minutes and I can be done. Why can’t we allow room for our children to express this same need? Although he does not state it on page 138, but I would surmise from reading his book, that this type of response does not met his definition of obedience and therefore should be dealt with by spanking.
Page 151 – The “How” of Spanking – “Remove the drawers so that the spanking is not lost the padding of his pants.” You know to this day I can remember my Dad spanking me like this when we were visiting some ones house. It is embarrassing and humiliating to expose your child’s nakedness for a spanking, and if you read around much on the Internet there are many stories of how this sexualizes this form of discipline and has left many people pretty messed up because of advice like this.
Page 153 – The Why of Spanking – “God Commands it.” My antenna’s have a habit of going up when someone subscribes something to God, but offers no verses for me to look up so at least I can find a verse that states this. “Spanking comes only because it is God’s method of driving foolishness far from your child’s heart.”
Really? Again, no chapter and verse attached to the statement. There are no other methods approved of by God to accomplish this?
Page 154 – When is the Child Old Enough – “When your child is old enough to resist your directives, he is old enough to be disciplined. When he is resisting you he is disobeying. If you fail to respond, these rebellious responses become entrenched….Rebellion can be something as simple as an INFANT struggling against a diaper change or stiffening out his body when you want him to sit on your lap. The discipline procedure is the same as laid out above.” An infant….6 months old is in rebellion for struggling during a diaper change and is subject to “the rod” for this. For the life of me I can not figure out why any thinking Christian would believe something like this.
Page 155 – Child Did Not Hear You - “When you hear my voice you should perk up your ears. From now on, if you fail to obey because you “did not hear”, I will spank you for failing to listen to my voice.” I hope Mr. Tripp and his devotees have not had children who truly have a hearing deficiency. I wonder how many kids have endured spankings due to this advise before the parents realized there is a genuine medical issue. Even if my children do not have a medical hearing problem, why would I spank them for this. If this was a repeated mantra of a given child, that would be dealt with, but why does it need to be dealt with by me hitting my child?
Page 151- 152 – “After you have spanked, take the child up on your lap and hug him, telling him how much you love him, how much it grieves you to spank him…At this point there should be complete restoration between you and your child…If he is mad at you, if he refuses to receive your affection, then something is wrong….On some occasions we have we have had to say to say to our children, “Dear Daddy has spanked you, but you are not sweet enough yet. We are going to have to go back upstairs for another spanking.” Mr. Tripp does not define this rather odd term “sweet enough”, nor does he give a number as to how many times he needs to spank until a child is “sweet enough”. And most importantly he does not cite any Bible verses to support this reasoning.
I really belive Mr. Tripp really goes off track here, especially with his recommendation to spank an infant who is showing signs of rebellion if they struggle during a diaper change and to repeat a spanking until the child is “sweet enough”. In my view this book in the wrong hands is dangerous and can lead to child abuse, all while being endorsed by God. I am often amused when authors like Tripp and Pearl who quote massive amounts of the Old Testament to promote their view of spanking, but never quote Jesus, and what He said about children:
Mark 10:13-16 People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.
{{{Candleman}}}
Candleman, thank you for your well thought out and respectful response. You bring up some serious points that are worthy of a serious response. You also mention some parts of the book that I haven't addressed yet. Again, I am going to hold off on addressing your specific points until I have thoroughly thought through it and prayed through it. For now I will just say as a disclaimer that I hope I haven't come off as a "disciple" of Ted Tripp. I only want to be known as a follower of my Lord and King Jesus Christ. I desire to understand his word and apply it faithfully. I take this very seriously and I know that you, Candleman, and tulipgirl do as well. Please be patient with me as I continue to pray over and construct a response.
For His glory,
Meredith
I have read Tripps book. I have also loosely followed this discussion.
I love the idea of shepherding your childs heart; of addressing the heart problem rather than punishing for the behavior. It's a beautiful concept.
However, I didnt like the way he applys the rod. I believe in spanking but not to the extent that Tripp advocates.
I was very uncomfortable with his idea of explaining to the child every time that God says we must spank them therefore I will spank you.
We need to let our kids know that the Bible teaches that we are to discipline them but to continually tell them that God says I'm to spank seems to me would turn them into teens and adults who know nothing about a God of love and mercy. I am not comfortable with my children thinking that God is up there waiting with a big stick to punish.
My father knew nothing of Tripp yet he disciplined much the same way. My 6 month old sister wouldn't sit still in church so my father took her outside and spanked her. When he came in she reached for her mama and cried. So he took her back out and spanked her again. Six times he did this until on the 6th time he came in and she konked out asleep in his arms. I remember my Dad gloating after church that "yeh, I broke her will finally. She's a stubborn little thing but I broke her will."
He didnt break her will. He wore the baby out. She fell asleep because she was exhausted. That afternoon when my sister changed her diaper there were tiny pinpoints of blood all over her little bottom.
I remeber time after time when he would do things like this in the name of obedience to God! At 14 he pulled my underwear down and spanked me. I was so humiliated.
At 17 I was taking a shower in the girls dorm at Bible college and was informed by my girlfriend that my buttocks were black and blue and green. I had been spanked vor backtalk the day I left home for college.
No I firmly believe that Tripp is wrong on his ideas on the use of the rod.
Mrs. Darling,
Thank you for your very honest and candid comments. In the cases you mentioned I think your father was wrong also. To spank in a way that leaves bruises and blood is totally wrong.
Let me try to carefully address all these issues that have been brought up so far. Please keep in mind that this is just my opinion. I may be wrong. I'm also not a bible scholar or theologian so my interpretation of the Scriptures might not be completely accurate. But I've been thinking very hard about this issue and praying for much wisdom. I also want to be sure of my position. While I believe in the use of the rod, I do have questions about the manner and extent of its implementation.
First of all, I believe almost all of the passages on the rod and using it specifically in disciplining children come from Proverbs. Yesterday I took R.C. Sproul's book, Knowing Scripture, off the shelf and looked at what he had to say in regards to interpreting the Proverbs. In general, the Proverbs are principles and not promises. I don't believe they are absolute commands on the level of the Ten Commandments. From that perspective, that's why I don't believe you can say that not using the rod is a sin.
On the other hand though, I want to have a very high view of Scripture and its authority. The passages on the rod are God's words and they were put there on purpose. That's why I believe that the use of the rod is beneficial.
The sticky part comes in the application process. How much do we use the rod, when, and in what contexts? I believe this is a private issue that will work itself out differently in each family. I haven't completely read the passages of Tripp's book that describe when we should use the rod, but I have skimmed some of it. I do disagree with the extent that he uses the rod. I believe it's dangerous for someone to say that his application of these passages is absolute and therefore if you don't apply the rod in all these circumstances you are sinning against God.
I believe what Scripture says about using the rod but we need much wisdom in the application of these methods. I'm sure I'll get deeper into this as I progress in the book. These are my thoughts for now. Thank you for your thoughtful and respectful comments.
blessings.
So then what is the meaning of the rod? I have never heard another inerpretation for the rod. This idea that the rod may not be literal is quite appealing actually.
Mrs. Darling,
Yes...there is much written about these verses from the Old Testament and how they can be interpreted differently than how Mr. Tripp does. You can visit this link to see how Dr. Sears addresses this issue.
Meredith,
Actually, I think you are interacting with Tripp's book very well. You are not coming across to me at all as someone who reads a book, and because a bible verse is connected to the authors statement that it must be true. So, no you do not come across to me at all as a disciple of Mr. Tripp, you come across as a concerned loving parent that is reading all types of books with a critical eye and most importantly praying and asking for the Lord's leadings and promptings as to how you are to raise your family.
{{{Candleman}}}
Thank you candleman. I'll check that out!
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